What's Next? With Lacey

What's Next: Founder

• Lacey • Season 2 • Episode 2

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This week, Lacey had the absolute pleasure of sitting down with the inspiring Giovanna Ventola. You might recognize her from TikTok, or know her as the founder of the game-changing work force community, Rhize. In this exciting conversation, they dive deep into the creation of Rhize—how Giovanna started it, the impact it’s making today, and her vision for the future. Plus, Giovanna shares her journey that led her to founding Rhize and, of course, drops some invaluable advice that you won’t want to miss! Enjoy!

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Hosted, Edited and Produced by Lacey Dikkers.
Cover Art by Andrea Tamayo.

Welcome back to What's Next with Lacey, the podcast, where I interview young professionals about their career journey so far. 

I'm really excited for you all to listen to this episode. As I am obviously with every episode, but there were so many firsts this time. It was the first time interviewing the wonderful Giovanna Ventola, who was the first entrepreneur on the podcast, and it was the first time I used a brand new program to record the episode. I say this because if you don't already know the story of this podcast, I started this podcast as a side hustle with no budget and no technical experience of how to make a podcast. It still is a side hustle and still has no budget and still my technical experience is somewhat lacking. But the best part about doing that is that I get to learn a completely new skill by making every single episode. The worst part about doing that is that I get to learn a completely new scale by making every episode. And that's that's hard. You don't always get time for trial and error, and sometimes the systems and the programs just don't work as you want them to. Still, the show must go on and an episode must come out. So as you will see in this episode, the audio did not work as well as I would have wanted. But my guest Giovanna is too impressive and the conversation was just too good not to share or to try and redo. So bear with me on this one and just remember, I am very, very much still learning. So on that note, this week I had the absolute pleasure of speaking with Giovanna Ventola than you may have seen her on TikTok or you may have heard of her incredible work force community Rhize, which she founded in our conversation. We go into the details of Rhize, how she started it, what she's doing with it now, and where she hopes to take it in the future. We also dive into Giovanna's origin story of how her career led her to founding Rhize. And of course, I didn't let her leave without getting some advice. So with all that being said, I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Giovanna. 

Giovanna, welcome to What's Next? Thank you so much for coming on. 
Thank you for having me. 
I want to start by saying that you have done something absolutely incredible. You have taken a situation which where you were unemployed, was out of your control. Like it was a really hard situation, which I know firsthand how hard that situation is. And you've turned it into something that is so brilliant and helpful and supportive and that something is right. So I want to start this conversation by. Why don't you talk to us a little bit about what Rhize is and what you hope to achieve with Rhize. And then we'll we'll jump into your journey from that. 
Rhize as it is. Today is the largest free online community to support the emotional wellbeing and professional development of our workforce. And it's an online community completely free for members. That's how it started and that's how it will always be. And basically it just started from my personal and selfish need to network because I was laid off three times in three years and I was like, I need some help. I need accountability buddies. I need somebody that I can relate to. And truthfully, I thought I would network with like maybe ten people and have a little fun little group. And it turned into a community of 3000 people and growing. 

It's so impressive how you've done that and how you have helped so many others who are in so such similar situations. I mean, I joined Rhize. It was a true godsend for me in my unemployment era, just to have that on a base level, just to have that like support group and the fact that it's free. Amazing. It truly it truly is. So I want to focus on your work as the founder of Rhize. Now, you recently, pretty recently decided to just kind of stop your job hunt and start Rhize. What did that feel like stopping looking and committing to this platform that you've created? 
It was very scary, but so we're about two and a half months in of me focusing on this full time, and it was the commitment that I needed to make, and it was a little bit scary to make that commitment publicly. Right? And I had to because my whole thing was around me looking for work and I can do it with you. And we're looking for work together. And then to publicly share that I'm no longer looking traditionally and I'm leaning into this thing I know is scary, but I think it's the it was the right move for me in a sense of I needed to commit to something. And it was either commit to finding a job and working for somebody else. And that would include ignoring something that I believe or lean completely into this thing and put all my effort and energy into it, because splitting the time wasn't working anymore, letting the time splitting the focus. I found myself not as excited for interviews or when I would meet somebody about potentially working for them. It's like it was a different feeling than it had been before, and I kind of just knew it was time to shift my focus. Yeah, definitely scary. 

No, it's a big it's a big leap, but it'll be worth it for sure. What do your days look like now? It went from job hunting to now full time. So what does your day look like now? What are your hours? What are you spending the majority of your day doing? You're obviously still making your your TikTok content, but also working on. Right. So what how do you split your day? 

My days. I'm just figuring that out now, actually. Like what way of working is best for me and like, what daily routine is best for me, which is interesting because I thought I had it all down. Before that. I worked 24 seven, now before I was 9 to 5, but now I'm in this thing. My brain can't shut off. I can't stop the work. I don't stop the work unless I'm forced to stop the work. So I'll give you a day in the life of me. I get up, I walk my dog, I have like coffee, a little breakfast and sit down and kind of start my day. And I spend a few minutes doing tick tock, but I've always done one take. I try not to focus all my time on that, but I do my TikTok videos just to continue getting the word out there. But then it's like working on building the community, working on a member experience, working with the volunteers, which I can get into. And then just getting the word out there that I work all day. I actually this week forced myself to go to the gym every day at noon, so I put it in my calendar. 

No, that's smart. You have to do that. I totally understand that this is like your brainchild. This is completely you and not the pressure, but the success or the failure of it is it's kind of on you. So I so see how that can just be completely all consuming and incredibly intense. So yeah, you mentioned the volunteers. Like what help what community within the community have you built for yourself to help you in this work? 

So I was initially hesitant to reach out for volunteers. I had a few people that had reached out to me and were like, I want to help you, How can I help? And I was very grateful and still hesitant to have them be a part of it because I'm not paying anybody. I'm not even paying myself. So how can I ask you to work for me and you're looking for a job and whatever? So I was a little hesitant, but I got to this place where I knew I needed help with certain projects, and I had had so many people reach out to me wanting to help. And I was like, I can just put out a call to action and see. And we have 29 volunteers working on 29 different projects. We have 14, we have an org chart, and all of these people that are volunteering are senior manager, director level people, and their work clearly shows that. So we have a content strategy team, we have a social analytics team, we have a partnership team, we have a graphic design team, and we had a member experience team and PR and communications. So now there's all these people working on these projects and I'm like, You're all better at this than I am, so run with it. So honestly, these last week we put the call to action up for volunteers. mid-September. We collected all of the volunteers over like two weeks, interviewed them. Everyone who signed up to help is helping and now we're in like week two of October and each team is setting up their workflow. Each team is kind of figuring out what their deliverables are, and it's giving me time to focus on like where the money comes from, the important stuff. 

How does it feel to know that there are a lot of people who do want to help you build this community? 

I think about it all hours of every day pretty much. It's very humbling. I think it's also very it's inspiring, right? All of the people that join the community that are now volunteering are volunteering, each for a different reason. They each have a reason why they join and a reason why they want to give back. And hearing all of those reasons and hearing what they've gotten out of the community besides professional development, like a lot of them have made personal growth here as well. And to know that these people are here to support a cause that they truly believe in and an idea and a vision that I have is a weird feeling, but it's weird in a good way. So I also have this feeling I don't want to let anybody down. And I will continue to like, work every day on making sure that the people that are giving their time and their effort to the community will not be let down. 
So I also want to ask you, you have put yourself in this position not only through your technique, but also like by building this community. So many people must come to you with their own stories. Do you think that that plays a part into the work that you're doing and kind of maybe moves what your goals are by hearing the stories of the community members? 

Yeah, 100%. I, I can't remember who I was talking to the other day, but I said this started because of me. But it continues to exist because of the community. So the all the decisions I make on a daily basis come from feedback from the people that are in it. So we have surveys, the feedback surveys, demographic surveys, psychographic surveys that are sent around and filled out at a very high percentage actually. And I'm collecting a lot of data and information about who's in the community as well as stories. And people are filling in. Like when I ask about, you know, is there anything else you want to share? Everyone's filling out more things that they want to share, and I make myself available to meet with people. I make myself available for these networking calls. So I'm collecting as much information as I can about the people that we have in the group. And that's how I'm making every decision, because, I mean, it's not about me, it's about them. And that's the only way that succeeds. 

You mentioned that obviously this needs to stop making money and you feel this pressure, you know, for for the community. But with regards to like you and the work that you are doing right now for Rhize, like what is the biggest challenge that you are facing in the work that you are doing? 

That is a very good question. The biggest challenge is a flaw of my own, is I would like to make everybody happy all of the time, and that is not possible. And so as the community grows, we're now upwards of 3000 people. That's a lot of feedback to take in and make decisions. And I have to make decision based on the collective well-being and I can do my best to listen to everything everybody wants and needs. And I will do my best to do that. And actually, you made me realize there's not been one suggest that we have not taken. It's just I would like to be able to provide the solutions quickly, but some of them require more thought. Some of them are down the road, some of them are let's find the right person to do this with. It's just I'm learning patience. Yeah, that's the challenge here is patience and people. 

Yeah, No, I completely get that. I am the exact same person. I always want to make people happy and I want to make them happy as quickly as possible and help them as quickly as possible. So I so see that. But like indeed, sometimes the best way to help them is once you have more resources and help them down the road or when the timing is right or things like that and then you are still helping is just not an immediate thing. But the people pleaser in you is just like, No, I have to be doing this like right now. 

And I think I have a scarcity. Is it a scarcity complex? I'm afraid that this is all going to be taken from me tomorrow. Yeah. And so I have this need to find a solution quickly. But I'm learning that finding solutions quickly isn't the isn't always the best thing and it's not always available to you. And so I'm trying to mentally handle that sort of idea that this could be taken. And just like every day, keep pushing forward. 

We've talked about how the community and the people and the work is like motivating you, but this career that you're now on is no longer a part of like a traditional track of like promotion and things like that. Like you're at the top, you are the founder of the company. So how, how does that feel like looking ahead in your career specifically or specifically with your work and ride? How does it feel to know you're not no longer on that track? And what do you hope for in the future? I guess is my question. 

So I've never and I'm realizing that now, I have never bought into the structure of approval when it comes to promotions in a traditional sense in the corporate world, because I have seen how that actually isn't a reality. And so you can work really hard for something and there's no rhyme or reason why you don't get it. And I had a realization this is a little story time. I love it. Years ago, I worked for this company and I remember a colleague of mine at the time left and he left me with a bad taste in my mouth. And I remember thinking he went to a smaller company and I was at a bigger company. And when he left to go to the smaller company, he got to give himself a title. And it was this like, I can't even remember what it was, right. But that's when I realized that title don't matter, because you could decide tomorrow that you're going to go start your own company and then you're the vice president. Or you can decide to go work with your friend on another project and you're like, Well, I want to be the president and you can be the CEO or whatever you want to be. And so I think I've just never bought into that. I think for me where progress and growth comes from is and I'm probably the worst person to even talk about this, but being proud of your own work, I'm very proud of what I'm doing right now and I always make jokes. Andrew and Armando are like, Don't call me the founder or anything. And it's been like an actual topic of conversation. That's an issue because I have to be that title, but I made myself that title does that count? 
Yes, it counts. Yes, absolutely counts. 

So I have never really bought into that structure of the corporate corporate world because I think it's a made up system. 

Yeah, I completely get that and understand that just so many people can just give themselves titles or, I mean, you know, lie about what their titles are on their public platforms or on their resume or, you know, in social settings. So it is a bit it is a bit ridiculous that we are all so beholden to this this structure that we that this corporate world is putting on us. But 100% you are you should and feel proud of calling yourself the founder of Rhize, even if you did give it to yourself. I mean, it's true you founded Rhize. 

I feel proud of it because of this. Like things like this or being a facilitator of this group of people. I feel very proud of that. And I guess I can say I technically founded it right? I founded it. So I just need to get comfortable with that verbiage. I guess it's a mental thing in my own head. 

We may have slightly touched upon this, but in in as much details, you are kind of allowed to give. What do you see for the future of Rhize? What do you hope to build for this community or to build out of this community? Like what? What's the future of Rhize? 

So working through that now, the future of Rhize, it's always going to be based in what the community's needs are. Right? And I have sort of found a way to bridge the line between the human experience and professional development and how personal and professional go together. And if we don't and how if we don't acknowledge that it's actually a detriment to our growth overall. And so for me, where Rhize is going is, you know, ideally I'd like to be able to get everybody jobs. So how do we do that? How do we find a way to connect humans with humans to get them work? There is another you know, I would I would I'm really looking into workforce development. We have so many talented people in the group. And how do you keep these talented people continually continually engaged in professional development when they're not working? And so workshop is that upskilling? Is that just this idea of like social interaction and social skills sharing? Like, for example, we have a group of women for women who are putting together their h.r. Professionals and they're putting together workshops to teach the rest of the community what goes on behind the scenes in h.r. And how you can potentially read those signs as a job seeker to support yourself and so workforce development and then i you know, we have a group of 29 volunteers, right? And I would like to have been toying with the idea of potential investment, but then like, do we go that route? How does that work? Right now? We, you know, we live in Slack, The conversation is in Slack. We are building out a functioning member dashboard on the website so that all of the resources live in one place and are easily accessible to our members. We're building out a plan for once people get jobs. How do we continue to be a value add to their life once they're employed? Right. We're defining the life cycle of a member, and we've kind of found that when you get a job right, there's two types of people. There's the people that love this new job and they get their dream job and they're so focused on that. And so their engagement in the community might look different. Some might come back as mentors, but maybe they're not job seeking. They're just like part of the networking. And then there's the person that gets the job to bridge the gap. And maybe it's a full time job, but they know it's not their dream job and they want to continue looking. And so what's the strategy there? 

So all very exciting things to come down the line and help the community. Do you ultimately want to always keep Rhize free for members? For the community members? 

Yeah, Yeah. That is the one thing I will not change. It will always be free for any person that wants to join at any part in their professional life cycle. I believe that the more interaction we have in conversation around the topic, the better. And I don't believe in capitalizing on people who are struggling. And right now, anyone who's looking for work in this job market, I don't care who you are, you're struggling. And if it's not financially, you're having an identity crisis. Or if it's not that, it's you know, you're going crazy because you haven't used any of your skills. So we think struggling as financially struggling, but there's maybe a lot of people that aren't financially struggling but are struggling in other ways. And I just think you can't take advantage of people like that. 

Yeah.  Thank you guys so much for listening so far. If you are enjoying this episode, which how could you not be, please spread the word of what's next. You can text insta DM email, carrier, pigeon, whatever method floats your boat, but please share the link to this episode or any of my episodes for that matter with anyone you think might be interested. I am trying to grow a business here so any help would be much appreciated. You guys are the best. Enjoy the rest of the episode. 

I want to turn now to your journey before Rhize, your career journey before Rhize. You studied dance and you started out your career as a dancer, as a professional dancer. What drew you to that field? What drew you to dance? What did you love about it? 

I started dancing when I was three years old. My parents signed me up as an activity, and it was one of those things where as I got older, you know, your parents sign you up for all the different sports and stuff. I always quit all the other to continue to dance. I just loved it. I loved being on stage. I loved like performing. It was so fun for me at a young age and I love learning. I'm a very type-A person and I like routines and all of that. So it was kind of like I was artistic and I was logical at the same time, I guess. But I distinctly remember there was a I used to compete too, so I would get, you know, you're also getting feedback and like metals and stuff. And there was like specifically this one competition I was at and I just remember like exactly what the costume was and exactly how I think it was. One of the first competitions I ever did. I was probably like 12. I just remember how happy I was at the front of the stage with like all of the group of us. And like when it was over, I just was like, that was so cool and I loved it and never went back to anything else. 

I feel like you're talking about medals in the routine. I feel like I can relate to that so much. I was a competitive swimmer growing up and I feel like it's such a thing. Like you connected it to type A people and I think that's so true. It gives you a routine, it gives you something a goal to go after. And I think as an adult, I'm not swimming anymore. And I feel like it kind of threw me a little when I wasn't, you know, swimming as much because I was like I always had a routine and something to, like, focus on, you know, I've never made that connection before. But you're absolutely right. You then switched into leasing work. What was this work like? What were you doing? What was your function there? 

Yeah, so I danced professionally until I was like 26. And then dance is so fun. And what you don't realize until you're in it is like what being a starving artist is really like. And I barely got paid to dance and I was working like four or five other jobs, like bartending, personal training, teaching kids dance and nannying constantly, seven days a week. And I got to this place. It's a little burnt out. And one of my clients at the gym, he and I had worked together for a couple of years and he worked for a real estate developer. The CEO of that company needed an executive assistant, and he said, I can tell you're a hard worker. You've been my trainer for three years. We need an EIA. I know you're considering the corporate world. Why don't you come in and interview and then, you know, just figure it out? I did that, interviewed and I interviewed with two people, the CEO and the CFO, and I was like pretty much hired right on the spot, which was great. But the CEO at the time and this is nobody does this anymore. He was a former gym teacher. He was a football player in Canada and a gym teacher, and he didn't start his company until he was 40. Like, I know he was married with children. And he said it was very important for him to hire people that were outside of the normal corporate realm because of his own experience. And so he liked that I didn't have corporate experience. He could throw me in whatever meeting he wanted and I would learn. And so I spent that first year at the V.A. in every single meeting, learning the entire real estate development business, commer residential, product management, construction, all that. And then for one year, a woman on the leasing team happened to leave and he was like, okay, you're going to go get your broker's license and work with that team that was that. 

You are so right. People don't trust people who don't already have the experience anymore, like being a fast learner or adaptable aren't really qualities that I feel like are being sought after, at least in this market now. I think that's like you're it's so true. Having experience outside of the corporate world can only benefit you and bring more unique skills to the table and people just don't value that anymore. So that's a great story. I love that story. What was something that from your dance, from your leasing experience, like what is something that you learned in those experiences that you are now using in your work for Rhize? 

I have learned how to take rejection a lot, that from the dance world, more than the real estate world. Rejection Accepting a No. I also learned how to stay humble very quickly. Probably why I can't admit that I am a founder. I also, I would say with the real estate like positions I held and then specifically at that company because I was there for a while and I feel like I did grow professionally a lot there. I learned how to listen and I learned that. And this is something I say all the time. You probably heard me saying in Bride, but if you're in the room and you're the smartest person in the room, you're in the wrong room. And if you're in a room with people who are only talking about what they're doing and themselves and all that, you got to go. And you want to be in a room with people who can teach you something else, can make you look at something a different way. And that is how I'm approaching all of this with grads, because I don't know any of this stuff. And I have a community of 3000 people that are experts in that field. And so I think taking a step back, listening, probably the biggest the biggest thing I've learned. 

Yeah, very important. I do want to talk a little bit about like your experience being unemployed. Like you were laid off three times in three years. What was similar and different between each time that you were laid off? 

So the first time I was laid off was the first time I had did not have a job since I was 14 years old. So it was a lot of shock and I started working at 14 and I had two jobs. And so to have that sort of work ethic, I had never in my life had a time where I wasn't on somebody else's time, let's put it that way. And it was shocking. I was pretty naive too. I think it was also the height of COVID just before the holidays, so it was literally October 20, 20 and so very slow job market. But I was hopeful. I had hope, which is something I don't think I have anymore. Back in Time was kind of a another not shock, but I had been with the company almost two years. They had had some back lash, not back backlash, what's the word? They had been struggling because of COVID and because of a few other things, and I could see it coming. Right. Like I. I knew it was going to happen. I just didn't know when because they were laying off people like every couple weeks, consistently for two years. And then the third time was a big shock because I had only been there just over 90 days and I was like, What's going on? And that was the night before Thanksgiving of last year, and that was when I was like defeated, depressed, very down on work in general. And I was like, You can work really hard at something. And it just like continues to not work out. How is this like, how did this happen? And that was the time where it went from like a job to like, what am I going to do with my life? Like, am I going back to school and switching industries? Am I? That was the first time I ever had like a feeling of defeat. Very dark. 

But I so I so get it. I you know, I was laid off twice and I so get that second time of like, you know, wanting it, feeling that defeat, but also wanting to like, take agency in what was happening to you to kind of regain some control in a situation in which you just like, have no control over. 
Yeah. And kind of on that note, like, how do you think these layoffs affected how you view like a career and like what we define as a career? 

I think one of the biggest lessons I have learned in life and with this situation is that everything is temporary and anything can change in a split second. And so I don't know that I buy into the idea of career, I buy into the idea of work, and obviously I may have to work, but like fulfilling work or work, that's the job. But I don't know about a career path, a career. I think you need to aspire to things and I think you need to find goals. And I think those goals and aspirations can be related to the work that you do and the things that you bring to this world. But I don't know that the idea of a traditional career path, I believe then anymore. I don't know that I ever did because I went from being a ballet dancer to like leasing a multibillion dollar project. And in my mind I'm like, I'm not qualified to do that. But I did it. I think career work for like a doctor or a scientist or somebody who's really like going down this path of that kind of work. 

Yeah, yeah. More traditional path. 

Yeah. And I think, I think, you know, the way the way decisions too. I've seen decisions be made in the sense of like corporate or career or whatever. If we buy into this thing of like, you work really hard, you do this, this and this, and you get to a place, and when you get to that place, you're happy. And when you get to that place, you get to retire. And when you get to that place, you get to whatever you want. And I have another story. Go for it. I went to college for dance and I saw that creative, subjective, right. And I'm like a logic type A grades make sense to me. If you work hard at something, you get a good grade, right? Well, how do you grade then? And so one semester I was like, Why didn't I get in a ballet class? Okay, this is how anal I was film, but whatever. Why didn't I get an and I got a name in it and I was like, I'm going to ask my teacher. So I went to her office and I was like, I have a question about my grade. And she's like, What? What? What do you want? And he was like, I got an A-minus and I think I deserve an A, And she's like, You think you deserve it? And I said, Yeah, but I think I did a work this semester. And she's like, Well, can you explain that to me? And I was like, I never missed a class. I took extra classes to like, better my technique. I worked with younger, like the lower class classmen. I was in performance, I was doing this, this, this and that. And I was like, I think that I've shown through my commitment, effort and dedication that I deserve. And I said, Yeah, you did do all of those things, but I just want to let you know that sometimes you can try really hard at something in life and still not get what you want, so you're going to get an A-minus. And I hadn't taken that lesson with me through every single part of my life. And people can say what they want to say about that. But that woman taught me something that I had never heard before in my entire life. I think about that story probably like twice a week. 
That was such a great lesson to learn at that age, because I think I only learned that lesson recently. I think I probably learned that lesson in the past year. And it's a tough pill to swallow for a type-A person who's been on a track of like, if you do the work, if you get the grades, if you impress your boss, you will succeed. And then to be knocked off that path is is is tough. So it's honestly like such a good thing to get that lesson, to hear that. 

Lesson to be knocked off the path, as you said. Right. Like you get knocked off the path and you think like I show up and I try not to use the word shut in, but you think, like I said, be at a certain place and you think I have followed every single aspect of the path. But then you have a colleague that left your company and goes to another company, and now his title is something that, you know, he doesn't go there. And so I started picking up on signs in my life that, like I want to say, she was right, but she was right and that you can try really hard. And so for me, that lesson became a lesson in self validation and pride within myself. And if I'm comfortable with the work that I've done and I'm validating that it doesn't matter if you give me an iron A-minus, I'm proud of what I brought to the table because you can have whatever opinion you want. So it's sort of given me this story to go back to. If I feel like I'm losing confidence, I'm losing something. It's like, did I give a effort? And if I can say yes and you think I gave the effort, well, I don't belong here. 

Yeah, it's all about, yeah, how you feel and whether you can feel proud of the work you're doing. On that note, did you expect your journey to lead to Rhize? 

No, I honestly was hoping to get a job. I wanted to meet with my whole goal, with meet ten people, hopefully somewhere where I live so I could get coffee with them and then get a job with benefits and a401k And I just wanted to coast comfortably and life like didn't need a crazy salary. I didn't need any of that. 
I still get that. But you're obviously happy, right, with with the work that's, that's come your way in the journey that has shown itself to you. 

Yeah. I've never been happier doing work ever in my life. So I that I'm reminded of every day and I'm using that to fuel all of my next decisions, my moves, and like how much effort I put into them, which is all of my effort. 

I want to get some advice from you before I let you go, starting with what is your number one tip for starting your own company? 

Ooh, I might have a different answer for you, you know, down the road. But right now I would say my number one tip is it's not about you. It's like, why are you starting the company or starting Figure out the why and the who and how and remove yourself from it. And the quicker you can do that and remove the ego and remove all of the fluff, you'll be able to figure out all of this. Clearly, you can do what you set out to do. 

What is your number one tip for surviving unemployment? 

Find other people dealing with it too. There is nothing worse than feeling isolated. There is nothing worse than feeling alone for me. And the reason I started sharing my story was I was literally so desperate. I had nobody to relate to. And that is a very difficult feeling for a human being and the human brain and like, we're not meant to do things alone. There's a reason why I like animals or impacts or like we find villages and tribes. It's like you're supposed to do these things together. And so my advice is find whoever your people are that can help you and validate you and just be there for you. 

Yeah, I think my unemployment experience got so much better when I found Rhize, and definitely the highlight of my day was the Rhize networking calls when everyone was on and you were just hearing about other people's experiences that was so similar to yours, even if they were an entirely different country, city, state industry, they were still fundamentally going through the same thing, the same insecurities, the same feelings. And I think that was so helpful to someone who was just I was sitting in my apartment and, you know, it's tough and everyone else was saying everyone else go to work. Or if you happened to be on the subway during rush hour and you're seeing everyone go to work and you're like, Why am I not doing that? What's different about you versus me? So that's why, yeah, I 100% agree that that is a great tip for everyone and anyone. 

You hit it on the head when you said people that are similar to you, that is something we all want. And for me I was like, This has to be my fault. Why? I've been let go three times. I was like blaming myself again on the things. But when you talk to other people and you do feel like, Oh, it's not about me and it's what's going on and I can find a way out of this instead of just like curling up within yourself. 

So yeah, absolutely. What is the best career advice that you've ever been given? 
So the best person I ever worked for was the CEO, the company that I, I started my late corporate career in. Mm. And one thing he said to me and I would say this is career advice and life advice, but we can do that because personal, professional connect, right? 

Okay, Absolutely they do. 

He said the best times in life is when he was poor. And I think about that's another thing I think about all the time and I think about where I'm at right now with the beginnings of Rhize with all of this. And I'm like, This is so much fun. I'm having so much fun, and I literally have nothing to lose. And so I think in terms of like career advice, I have never felt this way in my life about work. And I think if you can find something where you can take that feeling and professionalize and mix, then acknowledge that and be like, How can I have more of this? Because now I'm like, How can I have more of this feeling all the time, every day, if that makes sense. I don't know if that's career advice, but. 

It is career advice. I mean, it's essentially saying, you know, what is that saying? It's like if you enjoy your work, you never work a day in your life or something like that. 

Yeah, but it's not so cliche. Like, like it came with a story and it was just like the best time in my life was when I was poor. Yeah. And it's like that kind of stripping back everything and in life. I mean, obviously we need money to live and you need certain things and, you know, there's, there's that we live in a capitalist society, but it's like if you take away all of the floor and you're down to the bare minimum things, you know, are you enjoying yourself? And then what do you do if you are, you aren't. What do you do? I hope that helps someone. 

Yeah, it will. I'm sure it will. No, that is excellent, excellent advice. And then finally, last question for you, Giovanna. What's next? 

What is next Rhize is just going to keep growing. We have some goals for membership. We have some goals now that we have the volunteers in place. I honestly this thing could just skyrocket because like I always say, everybody smarter than me. But what's next is more With Rhize, you're going to see a lot of changes. I know you're in there, so you're going to see a lot more networking, a lot more resources, a lot more calls, and just more people being with people. 
I love it. I love it. 

Well, I am so excited for you and for Rize and to see all the incredible things that you and Ries continue to do and build and help people. I cannot thank you enough for starting Rhize. It's so been helpful to me and I'm sure it will be helpful to so many more people who who find Rhize and join it, as I suggest everyone should do. 

Thank you. And everyone who even the people with jobs, you know, this is for anyone. And so I think that's the important thing to note, too. You know, we're not an X, we're a very inclusive community. And I'm so happy that you found it and you became a part of it. And you spoke up in meetings and you wanted to volunteer. And we were able to connect and build a friendship and a relationship. And now we're here. And I hope this interview makes enough and that you can share it. 
It definitely, definitely does make enough sense. I promise. Now it's all well, excellent advice, excellent stories, and I'm very excited for everyone to listen to it. Well, thank you so much for coming on. I really appreciate it. 
Thank you.